Torah Networking
women in the Jewish perspective
Are there other orthodox Jewish women who experience feelings of inferiarity or bitterness because of the way we have to dress?
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by chaya3 on
-
here you go, this is precisely what I was talking about when I said that tznius rules are relative. Have you ever heard that the Lubavizter Rabbi z"l was poskin that women should preferably wear asheitel and NOT a hat? You need to ask your Rabbi what is the right thing for you. Saying that a sheitel is an isur, is in my opinion a very subjective ruling. Like i said, what may be an isur for one is a mitzvah for someone else. 70 panim latorah. There is also an Inian [significance] to follow what your parent do.
If he is not a posek, though, then one should ask a Rabbi before applying what Daniel says is proper or improper to do. and yes, I HAVE read his words. Otherwise I would not be able to comment.
You are right about your statement that the truth hurts.
-
Permalink Reply by Rabbi Joshua Waxman on
-
Is this "very close info" you have on this the same source that told you that Rav Moshe Feinstein was likely to retract from his pesak permitting sheitels but died before he had the chance?
This "rumor," as you call it, has as one source a Sicha from the Lubavitcher Rebbe on Rosh Chodesh Elul 5714. He said:
"The difference between a sheitel and a kerchief is the following: It is easy to take off a kerchief, which is not the case with a sheitel. When one is at a gathering and wears a sheitel, then even if President Eisenhower were to enter the room she would not take off the sheitel. This is not so with a kerchief which can easily be taken off.
The objection that wearing a sheitel was not made a condition of the match prior to the wedding, is not at all convincing. Does wearing a sheitel have anything to do with keeping one's word? It should be worn because it brings true good fortune to the husband, the wife, to children and grandchildren.
In the past the custom was to cut off the hair. Later on the custom spread of wearing a sheitel. Wearing a sheitel is especially appropriate now, when one can obtain a sheitel in various shades, which looks even nicer than one's own hair.
Let the woman ponder this matter. It doesn't take an hour or even a half-hour of contemplation. Why doesn't she really want to wear a sheitel but only a kerchief: because she knows that a sheitel cannot be taken off when she is walking in the street or is at a gathering, while a kerchief can be moved all the way up and sometimes taken off entirely, as known from practice.
It is possible that she will say that she will wear a kerchief properly. If she does so, then surely it is well. But experience has shown that this is not the case.
Why place oneself in the path of temptation?"
You can see this on this website:
http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/beautiful-within/20.htm
I will likely be amused at how you will attempt to spin this. Note he also is explicitly talking of sheitels which are "nicer than your own hair."
I go back into hibernation for now.
-
-
So you believe that the words are coming from shamayim. and how does that happen? if he is not a posek one shall not USE him as such. The whole point is that the isur or heter of sheitle should be dealt and discussed on the table of Rabbanim. If my Rabbi tells me its mutar than so it is. For me! Did your Rabbi tell you it is osur? or did you learn it through messages and words that come from shamaim? For this reason it was said: kne lecho rav (avot 1:6) Every case is different. What your Rav tells you to do deos not and should not apply to me. It is a basic concept in Jedaism. Don't expect the entire community to follow that which is individual for you alone.
Back to your commentary on the Lubavitze Rov, I know otherwise from my very own friend who was very close to the Rebbe.
My knowlege in that field does not matter. It is NOT my personal perspective. It goes back to what your Rav poskin for you.
-
-
So you are calling the authors of the site liars? And Rabbi Sholom B. Wineberg, the author (translator) of the book, "Beautiful Within," a liar? I think there are other sites that have recordings of various sichot, so it *might* be possible to find out. But assuming that this book and website are lying because it does not accord with your world view is what is ridiculous.
There is also the following, from Igros Kodesh (from the Rebbe, t"zl), which bears the same message:
"As to your inquiry about the difference between covering one's hair with a sheitel and covering one's hair with a kerchief:
The difference is simple indeed. When the hair is covered with a kerchief and one meets a non-religious friend or acquaintance, then quite often the kerchief "slides up" or disappears altogether into the pocket. This, of course, cannot be done with a sheitel. Ultimately, keeping the hair constantly covered then becomes second nature."
Igros Kodesh, Vol. XVIII, p. 186
"As to her going with an uncovered sheitel: For the last several generations already this has not been looked upon unfavorably at all. Understandably, however, it is necessary to ascertain the custom in your place - if this does not constitute breaking a precedent, G-d forbid."
Igros Kodesh, Vol. XVI, pp. 330-331
http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/beautiful-within/21.htm
Go ahead and look it up in Igros Kodesh, if you wish.
I knew I would be amused with your response. I probably will be amused with your spin on what is written in Igros Kodesh as well.
-
-
I see you found some way to spin it.
Very nice, mocking the words of the Lubavitcher Rebbe, z"tzl.
What the Rebbe meant was that when meeting a non-religious person, the frum person would feel self-conscious and would cause the kerchief to slide up, exposing a bit of hair, so that they would look "normal"-er. When going to meet a religious person, the wearer would not feel so self-conscious.
And the difference is that the Rebbe held that a sheitel is a valid head covering, and recommended it over tichels. Rav Elyashiv, at least as it has been presented here, would hold that the sheitel is no valid head covering at all.
-
-
Or, you can scan in that page of Igros haKodesh in Hebrew and show that he did not write those words on that page of that sefer.
I am not sure I want to share my address with you on the Internet or privately, for safety concerns. I will think about it.
Can't you summarize it? I'm sure it would be a big benefit for the Rabbim if such an explanation of this big misunderstanding of the words of the Lubavitcher Rebbe was made public, and not just accessible by tape.
-
Permalink Reply by Rivka Leah on
-
I realized that I never answered your original question. I, an orthodox woman, do not have feelings of inferiority or bitterness due to the way we have to dress.
-
-
You are right about one thing and I cant avoid repeating it again: The truth hurts...it would be benefical for your own health if you stop having rachamim on anyone who has a different opinion than you. From the way you react to a rational conversation I conclude that it is useless wasting my time over your arguements. why cant you just concentrate on what others have to say? You are not responding objectively at all. you are not hearing what we say. This is a very immature way of handling an argument.
But I totally understand you. The truth hurts to much.
What i dont get is why the other guy wasting his time responding to your nonsenses.. You are right once again, some individuals are obviously in need of rachamey shamaim. Now is your time to daven. But dont make tshuvah because you are always right. please dont bother responding. thanks. The management appreciate your cooperation...
-
-
please, if you think I said something upsetting or inapropriate then i must offer my sincerest apologies - it is very difficult to speak with clear vocal intonations on a printed page.
-
Permalink Reply by Baruch Meir on
-
I am curious to see the response to the following:
Once there was a young lady that grew her hair long. When she became a kallah, she went to a sheitel macher and had her long hair cut way back and made into a custom long hair sheitel that she wore after she was married.
If the sheitel is just to cover her head, perhaps this is okay for her to wear?
If the sheitel is to cover her hair, perhaps this not okay for her to wear since it's her own hair?
If it would not be okay to cover ones hair with their own hair, why would it be okay to cover it with someone else's hair?
-
-
Mishnah Berura, based on the Pri Megadim, says that it is permissible to use this detached hair as her own wig, and that it is not a problem saying Shema opposite it, etc.
See Mishna Berura siman 75.
-
-
It is partly true as you say, however, the P.Mg. states that this is applied in the places where the custom was to allow a wig of exposed detached hair. In such a place one could rely on the ruling of the gloss to the Shulchan Aruch. The use of ones own hair is implied by the P. Mg. and not stated by him.
The Rema allows the use of detached hair but there are authorities that dispute this. In Magen Giborim, it says we are strict about not allowing this and in a place where it is not the custom to allow it, we definitely follow those who are strict and do not allow it, since in such a place the onlooker could be aroused believing that the woman's own hair is being exposed.
I apologize, but I have to go away and may not be able to respond to any further replies for a while.
Chat
Loading Chat...
Artscroll Book Search
Help Spread Torah
Index
The Global Yeshiva was created by Rav Mitterhoff
© 2008 Created by Rav Mitterhoff
