Torah & Judaism For Today's World

Meat, Milk and The Torah - Parshas Vayeira

In this week’s Parsha, we read about when the three angels came to visit Avroham Aveinu. There is a Midrash that relates an interesting dialogue in connection with their visit. Many years later, when Moshe went to the Heavens to receive the Torah, the Angels protested and wanted to keep the Torah for themselves in the Heavens. Moshe however, said, that since they had eaten milk and meat when they visited Avroham, they were not worthy of keeping the Torah. We see from this Midrash two important lessons. First of all we see that keeping kosher is such an important mitzvah that the Angels were disqualified from keeping the Torah in Heaven, because they had transgressed this Mitzvah. Additionally, we see that although they had eaten milk and meat four hundred years earlier, it still was able to disqualify them.

How do we answer the question that eating milk and meat is allowed when in that order? If you want to say that they continued to eat them together or even that they were served together, then don’t you have a question on Avroham Aveinu for lifnei iver?

The Shulchan Aruch states that one may eat meat straight after dairy provided that one is careful to perform the following actions:

a) Rinsing one’s mouth - one may not eat meat after dairy without rinsing one’s mouth in between to wash away any dairy residue.

b) Cleansing one’s mouth - one may not eat meat after dairy without first cleansing one’s mouth by eating a bulky food, e.g. a fruit or a cracker, with the exception of flour, dates and green vegetables.

c) Washing one’s hands - one who eats cheese or other dairy food must check or preferably wash his hands before eating meat, to cleanse them of any cheese or food adhering to them.

Perhaps, than, we should also add the next line from the Midrash to help clarify the problem, "Yet even a child of the Bnei Yisroel who arrives home from school and is served dairy followed by meat makes sure to wash his hands in between."?

Two answers I’ve seen to the question on Avroham regarding "lifnei iver", "How could Abraham have served his guests both dairy and meat at the same time?"

1) Abraham offered his guests both types of food; it was then up to the individual to decide which kind he preferred. Those who chose meat dishes did not partake of the dairy.

2) Alternatively, they first ate the dairy, and only later did they eat the meat (as in the order it is written in the Torah).

Both of these answers as stated, however, create a problem with the Midrash. Also, they don’t clearly take away the potential issue of lifnei iver.

I read that Rav Yosef Engel (quoted in "Tiferet Le-Yosef") asks, "Doesn’t Halakha forbid assisting others in committing a transgression – a prohibition known as lifnei iver"? Then Rav Engel suggests two explanations that he brings from "Emunas Shmuel".

1) The prohibition of "lifnei iver" applies only when the person rendering the assistance is included in the given transgression. In this instance, however, Avraham only helped his guests.

2) Halakha would still forbid assisting one to commit a transgression, in such a case, by virtue of a separate prohibition ("mesayei’a li-dvar aveira").

However, in the above response, Rav Engel was really only addressing a question that other Acharonim raise regarding another halakhic issue concerning this meal, namely, being able to serve milk at all.

From a piece on the web by Rav David Silverberg, he explains part of this question, "Although milk is obviously permitted for consumption according to Halakha, today, it may have been forbidden prior to Matan Torah. The Gemara in Masekhet Bekhorot (6b) cites several verses from the Torah that establish the permissibility of drinking milk. Were it not for these verses, standard rules of Halakha would have forbidden the consumption of milk. The Gemara there records a debate as to why milk would have been forbidden if not for these verses. According to one view, milk is to be perceived as a derivative of the cow’s blood, and thus the prohibition against consuming blood would naturally forbid the consumption of milk, as well. The other view sees milk as a natural product of the animal’s body and should have been forbidden under the prohibition of "eiver min ha-chai" – eating a limb taken from a live animal. Since milk is extracted from a live cow, the prohibition of "eiver min ha-chai" would proscribe drinking milk, if not for the verses cited by the Gemara."

So where does that leave us with respect to understanding this Midrash? Besides the two previously mentioned answers and several others that I haven’t included, I would like to suggest one other possible answer as to why the Angels’ actions were so important in the giving of the Torah to man.

Very few men were ever on a level to merit interactions with Angels, let alone to communicate with Hashem. Of those men, Moshe, who was allowed to communicate directly with Hashem, is perhaps the greatest for many reasons, but certainly we know that the standard Moshe was held to was a far higher standard than any other man.

Moshe was severely punished for a sin that were it done by any other man, simply might have gone unnoticed. His punishment was due to the fact that Moshe was held to was a far higher standard than any other man.

Now, the Angels, who were allowed to communicate directly with Hashem, likely were held to a higher standard, as well. Whereas their actions, were they done by any man, might have gone, relatively, unnoticed, the Angels were held accountable on a standard that was measured against Moshe’s standard, and, even though they were in the guise of men, they still should have conducted themselves by a much higher standard. Had they, in fact, done so, we might find ourselves, today, responding to our own higher standard, based on their example. It was for this reason, amongst others, that Moshe’s defense prevailed. The result was our being given the Torah.

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Comment by Baruch Meir on October 28, 2007 at 5:23pm: Yes, you're correct. I mentioned the opinion of one after the other, too.

What I wrote came, in part from the following sources. So there are several differing opinions.

When the Torah was given to the Jews, the angels were jealous and strongly protested. The convincing argument that silenced the angels’ protests came from the three angels who had visited the patriarch Abraham. Then, they had consumed meat and milk together as the verse says, “[Abraham] took cream and milk and the calf (meat) which he had prepared, and placed these before [the three angels]; he stood over them beneath the tree and they ate.” (Genesis 18:8) The reason the holy angels ate forbidden food is that there is no impurity or evil in heaven, and therefore such food would have no negative impact on them. This incident silenced the angels’ protests because the laws of the Torah can only apply to beings who have free choice. Angels have no free choice. Free choice means that one has an equal opportunity to choose to do good as well as evil. The angels had no response for this argument and their protests were silenced. Since the Torah was given on the strength of this argument, we therefore have the custom to commemorate the giving of the Torah by eating both dairy and meat during the same meal, albeit separately on Shavuot. (Lekutai Halachot: Yorah Dayah: Hilchot Devarim Ha’Yotzim Min Ha’Chai 4:36-46)

As it is for this reason that you have passed your servant’s way”
(18:4) On the above verse, part of Avraham’s attempt to persuade the three
angels to eat in his house, the midrash says: Avraham told them, “You were
destined from the time of creation to visit me.” R’ A.Y. Yellin z’l (19th-20th
cent.) explains this as follows: The gemara (Shabbat 88b) records that when
Moshe ascended to receive the Torah, the angels argued that the Torah
should remain in the heavens. Moshe defeated them with several arguments:
First, he argued, the Torah says, “I am Hashem, your G-d, who took you out
of Egypt, from the house of slavery.” Were you, the angels, slaves in Egypt?
Also, he argued, the Torah prohibits eating milk and meat together, yet you,
the angels, ate milk and meat together at Avraham’s house! Rashi (Shmot
20:2) writes: When Bnei Yisrael built the golden calf and Hashem was about
to destroy them, Moshe argued, “The Ten Commandments are in singular
form; they were given only to me. Thus the Jews have not sinned.” With this
argument, Moshe appeased Hashem. This raises a problem, however, writes
R’ Yellin, for it defeats Moshe’s first argument to the angels. After all,
Moshe also was not a slave in Egypt, so why was the Torah given to him?
For this reason, Moshe’s other argument was necessary; the angels could not
receive the Torah for they ate milk and meat together at Avraham’s house.
The gemara (Shabbat 88a) teaches that the world was created only so that
Bnei Yisrael could receive the Torah. And, as explained above, the Jews
received the Torah only because the angels ate milk and meat together at
Avraham=FEs house. This is why Avraham said to the angels, “You were
destined from the time of creation to visit me.” (Chidud Ve’pilpul)

On the first day of Shavuot it is customary to eat a dairy meal. One of the explanations given for this custom is based on a Midrash (Shochar Tov, Psalm 8) that when Moshe came up to heaven to receive the Torah, the angels objected, claiming “keep your glory in heaven.” They wanted the Torah for themselves and opposed its being given away to humans. Hashem told them, “How can you request the Torah if you violated it when you visited the house of Avraham to inform him of the forthcoming birth of Yitzchak? The Torah forbids the eating of meat with milk, and the Torah says ‘He took cream and milk and the calf that he prepared, and placed these before them, and they ate’ “ (Bereishit 18:8).
Consequently, we received the Torah and not the angles because of the milk they ate together with the meat. Therefore, on the first day of Shavuot, which commemorates our receiving the Torah, we eat a dairy meal.

An interesting thought written by the Steipler Gaon zt”l.
“The Medrash says that when Hashem wanted to give the Torah to the Jewish People, the angels requested that they themselves should receive the Torah. Hashem answered them, that you are not worthy, because when a child comes home from school, they give him milk and he drinks; they give him meat, and he washes his hands and eats. But you ate basar bechalav, as it is written (Bereishis 18:8), ‘And he took butter and milk and the calf that he prepared, and he placed it before them… and they ate.’
“This indicates that the angels ate basar bechalav and as such, they could not receive the Torah. The question is however, according to the Torah, basar bechalav is only prohibited when cooked, and we do not find that Avraham cooked the meat and milk together before serving it. If so, what did the angels do wrong?
“The Steipler gave two answers. In his first answer he posits that in actuality, the food was cooked. This came about because the angels are beings of fire. The meat and the milk became cooked when the angels touched them!
“The Steipler’s second answer was that it is more probable to say that because of the fact that the angels transgressed a rabbinic injunction, there was sufficient grounds for them not to receive the Torah. The Medrash emphasizes that Hashem told them that a child washes his hands between the milk and the meat, but you ate basar bechalav. This indicates that the complaint against them was that they did not do the rabbinic institution of washing hands between the milk and the meat.”

R. Akiva Eigger (and others) hold that there is not even an issur of lifnei ever by a non-Jew.
According to some, the Rambam holds that lifnei iveir doesn’t apply to a goy.
the Rambam is not necessarily the Halacha. But in this case, where no others discuss this issue, and dispute his position on it, he is.
There is considerable discussion of these issues in various halachas. For example the issue of lifnei Ever and if it applies to a BN. Also his prohabition of a BN to eat aver min HaChai from a kosher slaughtered animal, is not supported in halacha.
The meat and the milk became cooked when the angels touched them! As to whether the Angels had a choice about eating the milk and meat, the answer could go either way. Most likely the Angels did not have free will and this experience was simply an irrefutable example that they weren’t fit to receive the Torah. Alternately, if one maintained that Angels temporarily clothed in physical form gain a measure of free will, then there are Mephorshim who explain the Angels’ complaint like so: The Torah is made up of a group of letters arranged in a particular order. In the higher spiritual realms, the order of and spacing between letters is interchangeable. The Angels thought that they could receive the Torah in some alternate ordering of the letters, something which would be appropriate for Angels. In such a Torah there would be no prohibition against eating milk and meat. When God refused their request, it became clear to the Angels that God meant to bestow the Torah ordered the way it was.

Comment by Rabbi Chaim Flom on October 26, 2007 at 12:20pm: Dear Baruch Meir,
I saw this Medrash in the Daas Zekainim Baalei Tosfos. It doesn't say that the angels having milk & meat invalidated them from getting the Torah. The angels complained to Hashem, how could He give the Torah to mortals who can violate the Torah? To which Hashem said that they too had eaten milk & meat.
Many meforshim explain why it wasn't "milk & meat" ie it was eaten oneafter the other etc. The Daas Zekeinim himself says that this medrash ARGUES on the Chazal who say that Avraham kept the mitzvos even Drabanans !!
Take care.
Chaim Flom