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Meat and Fish
My question is, if this combination is hazardous to ones physical health it should also affect non-Jews as well and thereby this knowledge be public.
Why is this knowledge not known in the secular world or is this combination not dangerous and was only a medieval thought?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Evan Gary Moss on -
"The mesora of the Torah is not good enough," is a rhetorical question... and we should follow the simple mesorah and not chumros of antiquated opinions? Or you are calling the mesora as well out-dated?
Ron Balofsky said:In today's society, there is a wealth of knowledge and introspection that "commoners" have which makes people create posts such as this one, i.e. why do we do out dated things.
Basically, why is the mesora of the Torah not good enough and we are all living a life of chumras...
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Permalink Reply by Aryeh Shore on
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Don't count me in with the Chumra people. I am modern Orthodox which is a somewhat different culture than Cheredi. Although latest surveys show the difference in the US is not large e.g., the Cheredim go to college to earn a living, the MO think that there is some value in the education by itself, in Israel the gap is quite large. Primarily the Cheredi are not what the Americans call inclusive. Actually they are quite intolerant of groups which do not follow their viewpoint.
Now Chumras just are not a Jewish domain. The Mormons do not drink coffee or tea as Joseph Smith felt it was bad for you health (sekanah). Recently someone said that the reason for not drinking coffee was because it contained caffiene. Therefore Coke and Pepsi should also be forbidden. The other elder answered, that is silly, there was no Coke in the time of Joseph Smith.
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Permalink Reply by Evan Gary Moss on
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Dr. Shore!
You certainly bring interesting anecdotes! Please do indicate how I may look it up, as I discredit myself by mentioning things I just heard... Unless Dr. Shore is considered a source in itself---But, even if he is, would the strength of the argument be as compelling?
Aryeh Shore said:Now Chumras just are not a Jewish domain. The Mormons do not drink coffee or tea as Joseph Smith felt it was bad for you health (sekanah). Recently someone said that the reason for not drinking coffee was because it contained caffiene. Therefore Coke and Pepsi should also be forbidden. The other elder answered, that is silly, there was no Coke in the time of Joseph Smith.
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If you google it, you will get at least thirty discussions.
However, this one specifically refers to Jewish Chumras.
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Permalink Reply by Evan Gary Moss on
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I can look through thirty discussions and take thirty days doing it (or thirty hours--or maybe even thirty minutes...)--I am particularly interested in that satirical part about Coke and Pepsi...
Finding what John Smith said about coffee will take a moment... but that latter reply wasn't mentioned even in your link.
Aryeh Shore said:If you google it, you will get at least thirty discussions.
However, this one specifically refers to Jewish Chumras.
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who said that they were trying to be satirical. These people really believe that caffiene causes infertility, middle ear disturbances and a host of other illnesses based on solid scientific evidence from the most prominent food scientists of the early 20th century. From a scientific viewpoint it is a valid as meat/fish and leprosy. (Leprosy in the Talmud and today is a bacterial infection which one treats with antibiiotics. Leprosy in the Torah is some sort of fungus.)
The medical research referred to in this article stands as a witness of the validity of the “hot drink” instruction in the Word of Wisdom. When this revelation was given in 1833, caffeine had been discovered as a substance, but its physiological effects were not known and the announcement of its discovery was buried in scientific publications. “It is very unlikely that the Prophet Joseph had heard of it.” But even if he had, no one at that time knew of its harmful effects. (Clifford J. Stratton, “The Xanthines: Coffee, Cola, Cocoa, and Tea,” BYU Studies, Vol. 20, No. 4, Summer 1980).
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Permalink Reply by רײזללאה אסתר בת אברםיצחק הישראלי on -
In nature an animal or uncivilized man would unlikely hunt and fish in the same day, and would have few options to store any food for later. Hence they would not eat fish together with meat. Likely before Noach for a long time no one ate those two together, and for a time after him too, perhaps up till the Middle Ages. The human race survived. It's probably healthiest for many to eat only one complex food like a grilled steak or a serving of gefilte fish at one sitting, as it does take subtle differences in digestion. I feel better eating eggs and meat separate. Meat does take longer to digest than eggs. I'm not sure about fish and meat together, I don't remember considering that combination. There's a way of eating called Instincto. People who eat this way eat only one food at a time. Many claim it has helped them gain better health.
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Permalink Reply by Ron Balofsky on -
Razel, Thanks.
My question for you is that we do incorporate fish and meat in to many שבת meals with a separation. If there is a physical ailment to this, eating them within 5 minutes of each other should also be harmful. Perhaps this should be outlawed as well...
רײזללאה אסתר בת אברםיצחק הישראלי said:In nature an animal or uncivilized man would unlikely hunt and fish in the same day, and would have few options to store any food for later. Hence they would not eat fish together with meat. Likely before Noach for a long time no one ate those two together, and for a time after him too, perhaps up till the Middle Ages. The human race survived. It's probably healthiest for many to eat only one complex food like a grilled steak or a serving of gefilte fish at one sitting, as it does take subtle differences in digestion. I feel better eating eggs and meat separate. Meat does take longer to digest than eggs. I'm not sure about fish and meat together, I don't remember considering that combination. There's a way of eating called Instincto. People who eat this way eat only one food at a time. Many claim it has helped them gain better health.
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Permalink Reply by רײזללאה אסתר בת אברםיצחק הישראלי on
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@Ron, you're welcome.
Not every person digests the same, or has the same bodily weaknesses or needs in healing (overweight/underweight for example). I don't think we can successfully police every family's dinner table either. I'm not sure any further food combinations should be outlawed. If we did outlaw it, would people go to prison for eating the wrong food?
I would like people to understand health better. I think from there it might be best for people to decide for themselves what to eat, or in this case what to leave off the meal's menu.
Perhaps in school lunch programs, adult day care centers and other institutions menus according to more health knowledge can be implemented.
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Permalink Reply by Ron Balofsky on
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Thanks -
I agree with the self assessment of what one should eat and stay away from. Combinations and Stand-alone foods. This only increases my initial question of the thread. Don't ban such combinations when there is no universally accepted danger known to such food combinations.
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Permalink Reply by Evan Gary Moss on
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Thank you Razel! I think you gave an excellent insight.
As far as Shabbos is concerned... Shabbos is different...
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Permalink Reply by Evan Gary Moss on
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Again, Ron, what did you mean by mesora?
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