Junk Food

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ron Balofsky on November 9, 2008 at 11:28am

Lets take Kosher in the sense of permissible and not permissible rather than ingredient/taste based. If one has an obligation to safeguard his body it would seem forbidden to partake of items that would harm the body.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Ron Balofsky on November 9, 2008 at 1:03pm

Life is about balance and you have to eat correctly.

No-body will tell you that Cheesy Poofs (or whatever junk you have there, in Israel Bamba) are healthy. This isn't to say that its going to kill you if you eat it but it is damaging. A better example is Coke. Countless tests have been run to show the detriment of drinking coke to your body to the extent that is actually pulls the nutrients of the food you have already eaten out of your body.

Why is Kosher strictly about the ingredients? The person who dies from drinking Carrot juice is not the wisest of people. Life is about balance but to consume something that has no nutritional value doesn't seems anti Shemor et Hagoof.

Yisroel Phillips said:

Ron Balofsky said:

Lets take Kosher in the sense of permissible and not permissible rather than ingredient/taste based. If one has an obligation to safeguard his body it would seem forbidden to partake of items that would harm the body.

I don't think you'll get any argument about that. Perhaps the debate will be at what point is a food considered unhealthy for this purpose. How unhealthy does it have to be? Anything in enough quantity can be unhealthy (there was that guy who consumed nothing but carrot juice for months and died as a result).

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by elisheva on November 10, 2008 at 4:14am

elisheva said:

elisheva said:

elisheva said:

It is my understanding and interpretation that Samson, the Nazarite, was from a family of people who ate only "natural food", since scripture mentions his diet specifically as he ate wild honey and also no grape products. Nowadays, a person who takes Nazarite vows would ,for the most part, eat only whole natural foods as much as possible, I would assume. You would not see them guzzling down Soda, but would remain as wholistic as possible.

Why were grapes forbidden to those who took nazarite vows? They cause drunkeness when they are fermented. But Nazarite law forbids eating ANY grape product, including grapes, raisins and grape juice. Was it that it was considered to be the first "sweet delicacy" and therefore they were forbidden due to the fact that they were like candy is to us nowadays. Maybe people showed addictive signs to eating such grape products and they were easily indulged in:therefore they were considered to be addicting. It is true that alcohol is addicting and very sweet food (raisins) is addicting too. But maybe that theory is no good since they did eat honey. And honey is sweet. But the difference between the sweetness of honey and the sweetness of raisins is that Jews were promised a land flowing with milk and honey, not a land flowing with wine and raisins. Also there is something bitter about honey that causes you not to eat too much of it.

In the song of solomon the woman says "Sustain me with Cakes of Raisins" By this I believe it is the closest thing to what a "Candy Bar" is to us nowadays. Since they did not have the same processed "Junk Food" we have nowadays as they did when the Torah is written it is up to us now to apply these simple parables to our high tech junk food dilemma.

Actually a "Cake of Raisins" is possibly where the line should be drawn between Wholesome and Junkfood/ the sweetness of a "Cinnamon Raisin Roll" is about the equivilent of a "Raisin Cake", Also doesn't Daniel pray to G-d (in the Book of Daniel) and ask him to "let me not eat of their "Dainties"
(or Junk food). I believe the woman in Song of Solomon was possibly a Nazarite. I think Junk food can be a serious source of indulgence to many people and there are many passages that admonish against gluttony. I was served some strange cereal once that had artificial color throughout(fruit loops) and I refused and said"I know I will starve to death if I eat it."

Raisins could very well have been the equivelent of what suqar is to us nowadays, a sweetener.

But not honey, it is less of a problem because it is less readily available, so less easy to indulge in, since the quantity of it on earth is less than fructose or sugar.

Unfortunately, there are many people whose only source of water is a cup of coffee or a soda. And their only source of bread is a cookie, sweetened cereal, donut, etc. Often food is spoiled just by the way it is cooked. Sometimes less processed whole food is much better with as few additives as possible. Easy to recognize for what it is and proof of what it is(grain, beans, fruit, milk, vegetables) You cannot grow anything without Bees (that make honey and also assist in pollinating crops). I believe by ingesting a variety of the earth's food you bless it and therefore it grows better, especially when it is eaten in it's purist forms. (Not microwave popcorn with it's many additives, but simple popcorn, the way our mothers made a couple of generations ago, etc)

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Ron Balofsky on November 10, 2008 at 8:30am

Thank you for the enlightening response.

As a point of interest the honey referred to in land of milk and honey is not the honey of bees, I believe (I need to double check) it is referred to as date honey.

elisheva said:

elisheva said:

elisheva said:

elisheva said:

It is my understanding and interpretation that Samson, the Nazarite, was from a family of people who ate only "natural food", since scripture mentions his diet specifically as he ate wild honey and also no grape products. Nowadays, a person who takes Nazarite vows would ,for the most part, eat only whole natural foods as much as possible, I would assume. You would not see them guzzling down Soda, but would remain as wholistic as possible.

Why were grapes forbidden to those who took nazarite vows? They cause drunkeness when they are fermented. But Nazarite law forbids eating ANY grape product, including grapes, raisins and grape juice. Was it that it was considered to be the first "sweet delicacy" and therefore they were forbidden due to the fact that they were like candy is to us nowadays. Maybe people showed addictive signs to eating such grape products and they were easily indulged in:therefore they were considered to be addicting. It is true that alcohol is addicting and very sweet food (raisins) is addicting too. But maybe that theory is no good since they did eat honey. And honey is sweet. But the difference between the sweetness of honey and the sweetness of raisins is that Jews were promised a land flowing with milk and honey, not a land flowing with wine and raisins. Also there is something bitter about honey that causes you not to eat too much of it.

In the song of solomon the woman says "Sustain me with Cakes of Raisins" By this I believe it is the closest thing to what a "Candy Bar" is to us nowadays. Since they did not have the same processed "Junk Food" we have nowadays as they did when the Torah is written it is up to us now to apply these simple parables to our high tech junk food dilemma.

Actually a "Cake of Raisins" is possibly where the line should be drawn between Wholesome and Junkfood/ the sweetness of a "Cinnamon Raisin Roll" is about the equivilent of a "Raisin Cake", Also doesn't Daniel pray to G-d (in the Book of Daniel) and ask him to "let me not eat of their "Dainties"
(or Junk food). I believe the woman in Song of Solomon was possibly a Nazarite. I think Junk food can be a serious source of indulgence to many people and there are many passages that admonish against gluttony. I was served some strange cereal once that had artificial color throughout(fruit loops) and I refused and said"I know I will starve to death if I eat it."

Raisins could very well have been the equivelent of what suqar is to us nowadays, a sweetener.

But not honey, it is less of a problem because it is less readily available, so less easy to indulge in, since the quantity of it on earth is less than fructose or sugar.

Unfortunately, there are many people whose only source of water is a cup of coffee or a soda. And their only source of bread is a cookie, sweetened cereal, donut, etc. Often food is spoiled just by the way it is cooked. Sometimes less processed whole food is much better with as few additives as possible. Easy to recognize for what it is and proof of what it is(grain, beans, fruit, milk, vegetables) You cannot grow anything without Bees (that make honey and also assist in pollinating crops). I believe by ingesting a variety of the earth's food you bless it and therefore it grows better, especially when it is eaten in it's purist forms. (Not microwave popcorn with it's many additives, but simple popcorn, the way our mothers made a couple of generations ago, etc)

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by elisheva on November 11, 2008 at 3:14am

I have never heard of "Date Honey" before. What is it exactly? Do you dip apples in it on Rosh Hashana? I have seen and tasted "date sugar" before, I believe it is ground up dates. If it is a land flowing with "date honey" that the Jews are to have then it must be a land with many Palm Trees?? Is the milk also "cocanut milk" or "soymilk"? if they are truly to inherit a land flowing with milk and honey then there would be lots of cattle (or goats), vegetation and water (bees love clean water).

I will never forget how I milked a goat once, when I was a teenager I visited a "community farm" (similar to a kibbutz) and learned how to milk a goat there. There is a certain way that you do it by starting with your index finger and thumb and then with your fingers closing into your palm one at a time.


Ron Balofsky said:

Thank you for the enlightening response.

As a point of interest the honey referred to in land of milk and honey is not the honey of bees, I believe (I need to double check) it is referred to as date honey.

elisheva said:

elisheva said:

elisheva said:

elisheva said:

It is my understanding and interpretation that Samson, the Nazarite, was from a family of people who ate only "natural food", since scripture mentions his diet specifically as he ate wild honey and also no grape products. Nowadays, a person who takes Nazarite vows would ,for the most part, eat only whole natural foods as much as possible, I would assume. You would not see them guzzling down Soda, but would remain as wholistic as possible.

Why were grapes forbidden to those who took nazarite vows? They cause drunkeness when they are fermented. But Nazarite law forbids eating ANY grape product, including grapes, raisins and grape juice. Was it that it was considered to be the first "sweet delicacy" and therefore they were forbidden due to the fact that they were like candy is to us nowadays. Maybe people showed addictive signs to eating such grape products and they were easily indulged in:therefore they were considered to be addicting. It is true that alcohol is addicting and very sweet food (raisins) is addicting too. But maybe that theory is no good since they did eat honey. And honey is sweet. But the difference between the sweetness of honey and the sweetness of raisins is that Jews were promised a land flowing with milk and honey, not a land flowing with wine and raisins. Also there is something bitter about honey that causes you not to eat too much of it.

In the song of solomon the woman says "Sustain me with Cakes of Raisins" By this I believe it is the closest thing to what a "Candy Bar" is to us nowadays. Since they did not have the same processed "Junk Food" we have nowadays as they did when the Torah is written it is up to us now to apply these simple parables to our high tech junk food dilemma.

Actually a "Cake of Raisins" is possibly where the line should be drawn between Wholesome and Junkfood/ the sweetness of a "Cinnamon Raisin Roll" is about the equivilent of a "Raisin Cake", Also doesn't Daniel pray to G-d (in the Book of Daniel) and ask him to "let me not eat of their "Dainties"
(or Junk food). I believe the woman in Song of Solomon was possibly a Nazarite. I think Junk food can be a serious source of indulgence to many people and there are many passages that admonish against gluttony. I was served some strange cereal once that had artificial color throughout(fruit loops) and I refused and said"I know I will starve to death if I eat it."

Raisins could very well have been the equivelent of what suqar is to us nowadays, a sweetener.

But not honey, it is less of a problem because it is less readily available, so less easy to indulge in, since the quantity of it on earth is less than fructose or sugar.

Unfortunately, there are many people whose only source of water is a cup of coffee or a soda. And their only source of bread is a cookie, sweetened cereal, donut, etc. Often food is spoiled just by the way it is cooked. Sometimes less processed whole food is much better with as few additives as possible. Easy to recognize for what it is and proof of what it is(grain, beans, fruit, milk, vegetables) You cannot grow anything without Bees (that make honey and also assist in pollinating crops). I believe by ingesting a variety of the earth's food you bless it and therefore it grows better, especially when it is eaten in it's purist forms. (Not microwave popcorn with it's many additives, but simple popcorn, the way our mothers made a couple of generations ago, etc)

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Ron Balofsky on November 11, 2008 at 8:53am

I am not exactly sure how date honey is produced. I am not sure if you have had the opportunity to visit Israel but we are full of Palm trees. On Sukkot, people actually use Palm trees instead of Cedar or Schach.I really need to see the details on the milk and honey specifications.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Rabbi Joshua Waxman on November 11, 2008 at 4:14pm

Indeed, the typical understanding is that honey refers to date honey.

Meanwhile, however, they just discovered beehives from 900 BCE in Northern Israel. See here:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/900809.html

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Bar Pinchas on November 19, 2008 at 1:45pm

BS"D

My Rabbi, when learning Tanya and Netsach Jisrael gave me years ago a simple reply to this: Petrol is halachically also kosher and doesn't contain any forbidden ingredients, but nobody with common sence would dare to drink it.
The Thora wants people to grow up, wants them to use their common sence and not behave like infants.

There is another point in Halacha: "Derekh Eretz kadmah LaThora" that could be brought to explain this same subject.
In my Yeshiwa they teach that it is Halachically forbidden to teach any Thora to any person without "Derekh Eretz". In this context "Derekh Eretz" is then being translated as "civilised", a "mensh", honest. But, for all, a person with common sence. So inorder to understand and keep thora you are required to use your common sence and not rely on dry Halacha, as situations do change and are never identical.

Returning to the initial remark of Ron Balofsky:
Use the latest knowledge in food sience on junkfood, hamburgers, chips/fries and combine it with practical halacha.
There is btw no prohibition on using non-jewish knowledge on food science as long as it doesnt contradict Thora as "Chokhma baGoyim: Ta-amin, Thora bagoyim: Al Ta-amin".

B.P.

▶ Reply to This

▶ Reply to This