Torah & Judaism For Today's World
I've blown it. I've really blown it.
We are in the middle of preparing for our oldest ds' Bar Mitzvah. Im Yirtze Hashem - it's now just weeks away.
We've offered home hospitality to our out of town guests (ie family) or the option of staying in a retirement center that is doubling as a hotel and is purported to be quite nice - for a reasonable amount of money.
My parents and in-laws have decided on their own that they will not be taking us up on these options; in fact will instead be staying a hotel of their choice in a suburb - which could potentially be a VERY long walk away. HOwever, they have no intention of walking at all, rather they intend to drive. My in-laws I kind of understand: they've never been Shomer Shabbos, my mother-in-law is afraid to walk (she walks with a cane) - we're seeing if they would be willing, instead to stay in the Hachnasas Orchim House next to my shul. (of course I'm trying not to picture how it's going to be, having my father-in-law pull up his car in front of the shul doors, so my mother-in-law can walk right in).
My parents initially thought that they would stay with long time friends of theirs; however, then they decided to bring their dog. I offered to keep their dog in my house over shabbos, but to no avail - my father wouldn't hear of it. Their current plan (well before I just blew it) was to stay in the hotel far away from our house, drive to our house Shabbos morning, and then walk to shul (my husband thinks that way everyone will think that they ARE shomer shabbos).
Well, the more we've thought about and discussed it - and by the way, did I mention that they all spoke with my aunt and uncle and invited them to stay at the same hotel??? (which of course they are all doing)- we decided that we were going to bring up the topic again. I spoke with my mother who immediately decried any connection to the issue and gave the phone to my dad. I repeated my offer of the home hospitality, the retirement home (we would be more than happy to keep their dog for them), or... even our home - at the expense of my stress level - which would SKYROCKET if they would stay with us. I repeated my offer of our home, which I made gladly. My father started out be responding that he was a little concerned about the rigidity with which we kept the Torah - perhaps we should become more lenient. He then stated that it seemed to him that I should be honoring my parents more than thinking about Shabbos - and why, as a matter of fact my parents DO keep shabbos the way they think it should be kept (ie driving on shabbos, using lights). In fact, he went on, I'm probably just pushing for this so that it will appear to others that my parents are something that they are not. He then said that he hoped that the children realized that my parents didn't hold the way we do - to which I responded: don't worry, the children know that you and mom aren't shomer shabbos. Well, I blew it. He got so very angry. I had told him that we were concerned about them driving and if no one were to take us up on our offer, we were thinking that it may be better, if they didn't attend the bar mitzvah itself, but the melava malka only. I so blew it. He was livid and told me that perhaps then my parents should reconsider and now perhaps they won't even come.
As an aside, I'm afraid that we couldn't even give my dad and my father-in-law and aliyah, as we were thinking, because perhaps my shul would have the policy that everyone should be shomer shabbos.
What I don't understand is that if he were visiting Japan or some such place and was told that the custom there is to take off your shoes, he'd be thrilled to oblige. If he were told that the custom in Greece was to wear a toga, he'd probably do it, but to do what is customary in my community is seen as an affront to him and his values personally. He told me that either I'm trying to make him into something he's not or I'm trying to make it look as if he's something he's not or i'm trying to force him to be observant.
And as background: my father is a ger - who had a kosher conversion years before he even had met my mother (who by the way he met in a shul and when she asked him to drive her home after services, he told her "I'm sorry, I don't drive on SHabbos" - see any irony here????). Since I was 8, my father has slowly become less and less observant (when I was little, we walked to shul, my mother covered her hair, my father wore a hat and my mom used the mikva).
Now what? I've worked ever so hard the past 14 years (that I"ve been married) on the miztva of kibud av v'em and building a positive relationship with them (read incredibly difficult endeavor). I think I've blown everything. Can I just crawl in a hole and die?
We've offered home hospitality to our out of town guests (ie family) or the option of staying in a retirement center that is doubling as a hotel and is purported to be quite nice - for a reasonable amount of money.
My parents and in-laws have decided on their own that they will not be taking us up on these options; in fact will instead be staying a hotel of their choice in a suburb - which could potentially be a VERY long walk away. HOwever, they have no intention of walking at all, rather they intend to drive. My in-laws I kind of understand: they've never been Shomer Shabbos, my mother-in-law is afraid to walk (she walks with a cane) - we're seeing if they would be willing, instead to stay in the Hachnasas Orchim House next to my shul. (of course I'm trying not to picture how it's going to be, having my father-in-law pull up his car in front of the shul doors, so my mother-in-law can walk right in).
My parents initially thought that they would stay with long time friends of theirs; however, then they decided to bring their dog. I offered to keep their dog in my house over shabbos, but to no avail - my father wouldn't hear of it. Their current plan (well before I just blew it) was to stay in the hotel far away from our house, drive to our house Shabbos morning, and then walk to shul (my husband thinks that way everyone will think that they ARE shomer shabbos).
Well, the more we've thought about and discussed it - and by the way, did I mention that they all spoke with my aunt and uncle and invited them to stay at the same hotel??? (which of course they are all doing)- we decided that we were going to bring up the topic again. I spoke with my mother who immediately decried any connection to the issue and gave the phone to my dad. I repeated my offer of the home hospitality, the retirement home (we would be more than happy to keep their dog for them), or... even our home - at the expense of my stress level - which would SKYROCKET if they would stay with us. I repeated my offer of our home, which I made gladly. My father started out be responding that he was a little concerned about the rigidity with which we kept the Torah - perhaps we should become more lenient. He then stated that it seemed to him that I should be honoring my parents more than thinking about Shabbos - and why, as a matter of fact my parents DO keep shabbos the way they think it should be kept (ie driving on shabbos, using lights). In fact, he went on, I'm probably just pushing for this so that it will appear to others that my parents are something that they are not. He then said that he hoped that the children realized that my parents didn't hold the way we do - to which I responded: don't worry, the children know that you and mom aren't shomer shabbos. Well, I blew it. He got so very angry. I had told him that we were concerned about them driving and if no one were to take us up on our offer, we were thinking that it may be better, if they didn't attend the bar mitzvah itself, but the melava malka only. I so blew it. He was livid and told me that perhaps then my parents should reconsider and now perhaps they won't even come.
As an aside, I'm afraid that we couldn't even give my dad and my father-in-law and aliyah, as we were thinking, because perhaps my shul would have the policy that everyone should be shomer shabbos.
What I don't understand is that if he were visiting Japan or some such place and was told that the custom there is to take off your shoes, he'd be thrilled to oblige. If he were told that the custom in Greece was to wear a toga, he'd probably do it, but to do what is customary in my community is seen as an affront to him and his values personally. He told me that either I'm trying to make him into something he's not or I'm trying to make it look as if he's something he's not or i'm trying to force him to be observant.
And as background: my father is a ger - who had a kosher conversion years before he even had met my mother (who by the way he met in a shul and when she asked him to drive her home after services, he told her "I'm sorry, I don't drive on SHabbos" - see any irony here????). Since I was 8, my father has slowly become less and less observant (when I was little, we walked to shul, my mother covered her hair, my father wore a hat and my mom used the mikva).
Now what? I've worked ever so hard the past 14 years (that I"ve been married) on the miztva of kibud av v'em and building a positive relationship with them (read incredibly difficult endeavor). I think I've blown everything. Can I just crawl in a hole and die?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rivka Leah on
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Was I somehow in the wrong? I tried so hard to be respectful. What bothers me the most is that my mother went over my head and told her sister that that hotel would be where the family would be staying - when clearly that was the last thing that I would have wanted; especially as there are nice accomodations within walking distance.
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My reply didn't go where I wanted it to...it was in response to this.
Yisroel Phillips said:I don't know what you can do to repair matters, but I do know that many Rabbis (especially those in kiruv work) hold that it is sufficient that you offer accommodation over Shabbos; then if the guest declines it and decides to drive to Shul, it's not your problem.
But I'm not surprised at your parents' attitudes. It is especially typical of Jews who once were frum and no longer are. They have to lose all respect for those who remain/become frum otherwise they would have a problem with their own state of observance.
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Permalink Reply by Ben on -
Maybe, and just maybe, you can say, "Dad, what is difficult about you doing this for us?" That usually elicits an intelligence response.
Yisroel Phillips said:Rivka Leah said:Was I somehow in the wrong? I tried so hard to be respectful. What bothers me the most is that my mother went over my head and told her sister that that hotel would be where the family would be staying - when clearly that was the last thing that I would have wanted; especially as there are nice accomodations within walking distance.
No, I don't think you were wrong; you tried your best to accommodate them and to see to it that they were not going to be mechallel Shabbos.
You are not alone in this kind of situation. I fell out with my own brother a few months ago, all because I refused to wish his daughter (my niece) Mazal Tov upon her engagement to a non-Jew. In the course of one of the many conversations I had with him on the issue it became crystal clear that he had no respect whatsoever for my family's Orthodox observance. I therefore consider myself to be the "black sheep" of the family! -:)
All I can suggest is that you speak with your parents again and tell them how important it is to you and your family that they attend the Bar Mitzva and re-iterating the offer of Shabbos accommodation IF THEY WISH TO TAKE YOU UP ON IT, but otherwise don't push it any more.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Plaskow on -
May I suggest that you have his Barmitzva on a Monday or Thursday, whichever is nearer to his actual Jewish birthdate. That way, everyone can travel by car and no extra hotel accommodation is necessary.
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Permalink Reply by Rabbi Aryeh Moshen on -
I think that you need to take an evening off and relax. You've done all you can and have to learn that there are certain areas beyond your control. Don't look for the irony and don't look to have any more fights. Don't bring up the issue. Let your Rav know that you've made several suggestions to avoid the Chillul Shabbos and that your parents have turned all these down. In the future, you might want to plan a weekday affair to avoid these issues. It's too late to avoid the current bar mitzvah, haba aleychem l'tvoah.
May your son grow up to be a Talmid Chochom, Yore Shomayaim, and a Baal Chesed.
May your yesurim of the past few days bring you a Kaparah on any open issues that are before the Beis Din shel Maalah.
You might want to pick up a copy of "My Father My King" and start reading it slowly, no more than a chapter every two or three days.
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Rabbi Aryeh Moshen said:I think that you need to take an evening off and relax. You've done all you can and have to learn that there are certain areas beyond your control. Don't look for the irony and don't look to have any more fights. Don't bring up the issue. Let your Rav know that you've made several suggestions to avoid the Chillul Shabbos and that your parents have turned all these down. In the future, you might want to plan a weekday affair to avoid these issues. It's too late to avoid the current bar mitzvah, haba aleychem l'tvoah.
May your son grow up to be a Talmid Chochom, Yore Shomayaim, and a Baal Chesed.
May your yesurim of the past few days bring you a Kaparah on any open issues that are before the Beis Din shel Maalah.
You might want to pick up a copy of "My Father My King" and start reading it slowly, no more than a chapter every two or three days.
Thank you for your words. We discussed at great length having a weekday bar mitzvah, however, my son's bo b'yom falls out on shabbos.
Secondly, amein!
Thank you for the book recommendation: I already have it, and will do a re-read.
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Ben, I apologize by being so forward, by using your first name, however, that's what I have to work with...I'm not reopening that kettle of fish, so to speak. I'm working very hard on regaining a relationship with my parents - it's always been strained and uncomfortable; to ask that, would, I believe, make things worse.
Here's my update: I sat down and wrote my parents a letter of apology where I said that I was sorry if I had hurt their feelings and certainly I respected that they have different beliefs than I. I told them that we would love to have them with us and that they should make whatever arrangements they felt were best. My father replied, accepting my apology and then went on to justify why he was right and I was wrong.
However, besides all that went on between the two of us, my father went and called my inlaws, telling them how awful I was and how I was trying to force my beliefs on others, etc. My husband called his parents last night and resolved that - and out of this my inlaws are (as long as it's available) going to stay in the hachnasas orchim house next to the shul.
On a slightly different topic, my mother spoke with my children the other morning. Apparently she told my 7 yr old ds, that it was okay to drive to shul on shabbos as well as okay to travel on shabbos. My son and I have been having some long conversations as a result.
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Permalink Reply by Sam- on
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Yisroel Phillips said:I therefore consider myself to be the "black sheep" of the family! -:)
How about the "black hatted sheep" of the family? ;-)
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Permalink Reply by Rabbi Aryeh Moshen on
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My parents were never frum. Yet they would never think about telling my children to live by their standards. Your mother has crossed a red line. I would therefore suggest that your contact with her be kept to a minimum. When a Jewish parent stoops to the level that your mother did in telling your young son that it is permissible to drive on Shabbos, she must be kept far away from him, even if it means that you must block her phone calls.
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Rabbi Aryeh Moshen said:
Contact is generally kept at a minimum and I'm usually on the phone listening when they talk to the kids - this last time Rashi ran with the phone to pass it to the twins. My father, in a previous visit, told me that 'visiting once a year is MORE than ample' - so we rarely see them.My parents were never frum. Yet they would never think about telling my children to live by their standards. Your mother has crossed a red line. I would therefore suggest that your contact with her be kept to a minimum. When a Jewish parent stoops to the level that your mother did in telling your young son that it is permissible to drive on Shabbos, she must be kept far away from him, even if it means that you must block her phone calls.
I think for the next Bar Mitzvah - G-d willing, we won't inform my parents of anything until after they've received their invitation.
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